tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post2025804545666690875..comments2023-08-20T09:39:40.462+01:00Comments on The Centre for Scottish Public Policy: Ross Martin: The red rose has to go, for startersCSPPhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16513852098836995322noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-66190924334742904872011-05-26T20:58:13.096+01:002011-05-26T20:58:13.096+01:00Really, he's missing the point.
The truth is,...Really, he's missing the point.<br /><br />The truth is, if Westminster Labour was tired, out of ideas and battle fatigued and economically reaping the harvest of Gordon Brown's ill thought out spending, then Labour in Scotland is infinitely more diseased.<br /><br />The hegemonic empire that is Labourvin Scotland exists to simply feed itself. The cronyism is not a symptom to be treated but is the actual state of affairs. The cronyism is just a manifestation of the empire that is Labour's view ofa stagnant Scottish society that should not be a boat to be rocked. For that, Westminster Labour looks positively sparkling compared to Labour in Scotland but it isn't (see the state of the economy).<br /><br />Labour in Scotland have been rumbled by the voters. It's not just some grass roots changes that need to be made, it's a party political cahnge that needs to be made, and guess what it has been.<br /><br />May 5th 2011.Scottish republicnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-73446619116532968052011-05-24T21:21:45.773+01:002011-05-24T21:21:45.773+01:00Nothing points up Scotland's situation in rela...Nothing points up Scotland's situation in relation to the UK more than the nature of the present government - a Tory government, when the Tories were decisively rejected in May 2010 by the Scottish electorate, a Coalition deal negotiated by Danny Alexander, a LibDem who would have been thrown out of office had he stood for the Scottish Parliament.<br /><br />The LibDem have provided two Scottish Secretaries to replace the awful Jim Murphy - Alexander briefly, and now Michael Moore, both representatives of a party that has been humiliatingly rejected by the Scottish people, and would be destroyed at the UK ballot box in a general election if one were called tomorrow.<br /><br />These latter-day colonial governors had and have no real mandate of any kind, even in their non-role, yet the lugubrious Moore pontificates on matters fundamental to Scotland's economic recovery.<br /><br />When the great divide between the Scottish electorate's verdict in May 2010 and the rest of the UK became known, worried Westminster media pundits commented that "it made us look as if there were two nations". There are - that's the whole point, and the point will soon be made even more forcibly.moriduraalt.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17002920496823680378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-33618780181993215422011-05-24T19:21:39.842+01:002011-05-24T19:21:39.842+01:00Ross is spot on in most of his analysis . Some add...Ross is spot on in most of his analysis . Some additional points may have been worth considering ." It is one of the great ironies of our time that Labour led the mass civic movement that campaigned for and designed devolution" Ross, actually they didn't. NEW labour responded in a blind panic to the Scottish electorate who even then were swinging away from centralised manipulative Party machine politics. NEW Labour did however design it .Devolution was intended to exercise control over Scotland.It was old style colonialism with a modern face. The absurd undemocratic electoral system was meant to ensure no overall control.The lack of leadership and general political nous ensured it eventually <br />blew up in their faces.They did not even have the brains to PRETEND to be independent of Westminster.As for policy direction Labour in Holyrood contented themselves with being against the SNP on absolutely everything (to the point of stupidity)but couldn't say what they were for.The SNP had the courage to form a minority Government and whether we like it or not the consensus is they did well.The Lib Dems,being political whores, would have jumped into bed with Labour again despite being in Coalition in Westminster. Many people including Labour voters clearly preferred another minority SNP to that scenario. Labour continues to blames a swing of Lib Dem votes to the SNP for the massacre at the polls. Another hypothesis is that the Lib Dems actually swung to Labour(Labour's vote went up in percentage points in some very safe constituencies which would support that theory)However Labour voters wiped out the swing by simultaneously going to the SNP .Labour have the Lib Dems to thank for preventing an even bigger wipe out . Have lessons been learned ? Doubt it .Last I heard Jim Murphy et al were taking advice from an Obama strategist!! Labour would do well to pay attention to someone closer to home " I must follow the people. Am I not their leader?" Benjamin Disraeli <br /><br />Danny McCafferty ClydebankAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-86139156684717216012011-05-24T16:53:27.855+01:002011-05-24T16:53:27.855+01:00Scottish Labour's problem is the two iron ball...Scottish Labour's problem is the two iron balls shackled to its ankles - one labelled U and the other K. 'Scottish' Labour has only one purpose - to keep Westminster Labour in power in the UK.<br /><br />Ross Martin says "The Scottish Labour Party must be all three of these things: Scottish, Labour and a proper political Party." It can be none of these things while Scotland remains in the UK and Labour is a unionist party. There was no "mass civic movement that campaigned for and designed devolution" - it was a Blair/New Labour sitch up designed to draw the teeth of Scottish Nationalism, as George Robertson so clearly stated, and was so badly wrong about.<br /><br />The Scottish independence movement is committed to a constitutional monarchy, sensible shared arrangements on defence - excluding the obscenity of nuclear weapons and WMDs in Scottish waters - and an intelligent, sophisiticated relationship of friendship and trust with the residual United Kingdom of England, Wales and Northern Ireland - UK Minus.<br /><br />What ragged standards have Scottish Unionist Labour got left to cling to? <br /><br />The outmoded and lethal doctrine of nuclear deterrence? <br /><br />The right of a Westminster Parliament, dominated by a south east power bloc of money, privilege and corruption to decide when the flower of Scottish youth is sent to die in foreign adventures at the dictat of US foreign policy, which at any time could fall back into the suicidal lunacies of the Bush era? <br /><br />To almost 1000 unelected Lords in a second chamber that is always destined for reform but never will be while the UK lives? <br /><br />Scottish Labour must indeed do three things to survive and regenerate - embrace Scottish independence, reject the nuclear deterrent and perform an act of public contrition for the egregious crime against humanity that was the Iraq war. Then, and only then, the party might rediscover its values, its identity - and its soul.moriduraalt.blogspot.comhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17002920496823680378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-57663473330706936042011-05-24T15:44:34.187+01:002011-05-24T15:44:34.187+01:00Ross makes a number of valid points but his natura...Ross makes a number of valid points but his natural support for Labour shines through and understandably so. I think the real question for Scottish people has been "Do we need three centre left parties to represent our interests?" The short answer is one will do and its not Labour and not the Liberal Democrats, so a reasonably competent government team deserves another chance. The huge danger over the next five years is that Parliament and relations with Westminster and Europe aee dominated by an idealogical debate about the degree of independence that the Scottish people want, fuelled by a few party activists who want greater or lesser autonomy within the United Kingdom. In truth the people voted for a strong leader who can deliver on jobs, education and health in a very tough climate. The rest is a sideshow and Labour will have no part to play in the main performance having faileed to turn up for the rehearsals for the last four years. And by the way its not Labour's script anymore. Ironically for Labour its likely to be the Conservatives, with significant resource to call on, who will likely provide an effective, questioning opposition as the economic case for Union or no Union is debated.Melvyn Inglesonhttp://www.mjibusinesssolutions.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-87029933869613210552011-05-19T22:06:19.361+01:002011-05-19T22:06:19.361+01:00"In our Cities, Labour needs to have big idea..."In our Cities, Labour needs to have big ideas and bold policy initiatives. The other parties are engaging with the development of the Cities agenda, as are Labour at the local level, but the Scottish leadership simply doesn’t get it"<br /><br />Ross I agree with your comment there (although I'd condition that with doubts about how far the SNP has gone on cities). I think that the Scottish and Scottish/Westminster labour leadership has almost no handle on the whole creativity and entrepreneurship 'thing'.<br /><br />Derek I appreciate where you are coming from on Labour still being strong in Glasgow. My thinking is that Scottish Labour campaign strategy and management in the recent election was so awful that even the most basic competence next time around will help them significantly. <br /><br />But on your "I don't know if one year is enough for Labour to reinvent itself"; I think they may have already failed on the reinvention front, because the real culture shock ought to have been when the SNP were elected into Scottish Government first time around. I warned Labour friends at that time that a huge shift in the tribal base may be under way and that every day that went by under an SNP government without the Scottish roof falling in was another day’s move away from Labour’s tribal lock on Scotland. <br /><br />I found Labour folk unaccepting and uncomprehending at that time. The belief that they were the establishment in Scotland was deeply ingrained (in a cruel irony it was the recently deceased Labour MP David Cairns who pointed this up at that time).<br /><br />In a possibly particularly instructive coincidence, we had then, and again now, cries from the likes of Tom Harris for 'a closer relationship' between Scottish Westminster MPs and Scottish Labour (i.e. Westminster heavy control reinforced)... and of course the presence of Jim Murphy as Westminster Viceroy is again re-run. Nothing there to indicate any commitment to reinvention.Edward Harkinshttp://uk.linkedin.com/pub/edward-harkins/15/40/635noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7207054455698263599.post-41897122658444744992011-05-18T12:01:08.083+01:002011-05-18T12:01:08.083+01:00Ross,
The extent of the Labour meltdown was a surp...Ross,<br />The extent of the Labour meltdown was a surprise, but the actual result was becoming more and more predictable in the last couple of weeks of the campaign. I know someone who was working for the SNP in one of the Glasgow seats that it took from Labour. Doorstep polling was so pro-SNP that the local party was discounting the predictions - the Nats were getting pledges from Labour and Tory voters in Glasgow's southside to the extent that Charlie Gordon was going to be history.<br />Of course, that's how it turned out on the night in 5 of the 9 seats.<br />I agree with most of your analysis especially about our cities and I definitely agree with the potential symbolism of moving the Labour Party HQ to Edinburgh.<br />However, the unreconstructed Labour party is not dead yet, especially in the west of Scotland, where Labour remains 'The Establishment' despite the election results. I don't know if one year is enough for Labour to reinvent itself, but the Council elections in May 2012 will tell us.<br />Meantime, who will provide the constrcutive opposition to the SNP in the Parliament Chamber and, more importantly, in the majority-SNP Committees? With 68 other SNP MSPs to keep happy, the strongest opposition to Alex Salmond may start to come form within.<br />Should be an interesting year.<br />Derek Elder<br />derekelder@gmail.comDerek Eldernoreply@blogger.com